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	<title>Comments on: Pecha Kucha: Comparing two visions of design</title>
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	<link>http://designtheory.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/pecha-kucha-comparing-two-visions-of-design/</link>
	<description>Discussing what is common to architecture, urban design, industrial design, graphic design.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:18:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Robert Andruchow</title>
		<link>http://designtheory.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/pecha-kucha-comparing-two-visions-of-design/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Andruchow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designtheory.wordpress.com/?p=67#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Hi Jeff, thanks for giving your feedback. It&#039;s great to hear what others think about my diagram/ideas. And, don&#039;t worry about posting late; there really isn&#039;t a deadline for posting.

I highly recommend you watch my &lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2xtWAHr6Mc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;presentation on YouTube&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; (click on &quot;Watch in High Quality&quot; just below the video so you can read the slides properly). The video is only 6 minutes so it won&#039;t take much time to watch. I hope the video will clarify the position I&#039;m arguing.

Correct me if I&#039;m wrong, but I think you are misinterpreting slide Sec114. Instead of that slide showing &lt;em&gt;my view&lt;/em&gt; of design, it actually is trying to show Buchanan and Mau&#039;s notion of design. The red arrow is meant to indicate how &lt;em&gt;their&lt;/em&gt; definition has &lt;em&gt;enlarged&lt;/em&gt; the discipline to encompass all applied disciplines (including engineering, genetics, politics, etc), whereas the old view of design (say, from 50 years ago), saw design as one applied discipline among many. I was trying to show that this enlargening of design is a &lt;strong&gt;major&lt;/strong&gt; shift in how academic and practical disciplines have traditionally been categorized. My view is that this enlargening of design is far too ambitious and arrogant. To argue that designers can &quot;design&quot; a political system, economy or animal gene, is simply insulting to the disciplines in which this is clearly their domain of expertise and knowledge: political science, economics and genetics. 

For an explicit comparison between my view of design vs Buchanan/Mau see &lt;strong&gt;slide Sec120&lt;/strong&gt; in the same &lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://designtheory.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/robertandruchow_pechakucha_sep11-2008.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PDF&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;. My view is the &quot;narrow definition&quot; and Buchanan/Mau is the &quot;broad definition&quot;. I believe the narrow definition is much more realistic and recognizes that design can&#039;t do everything. We are not experts in political science nor economics, so how could we possibly argue that our discipline includes these as sub-disciplines.

From what gather in your comment, you believe that even Buchanan and Mau&#039;s definition of design (which you thought was mine) is too finite or limiting. If this is the case, I have two questions for you that might illustrate my concern with such a broad definition of design:

	If your definition of design is even broader than Buchanan and Mau&#039;s definition, doesn&#039;t this necessarily make all disciplines a sub-discipline of design? 
	If this is the case, what would such a School of Design teach? Does this mean we need to teach our students political science, economics, genetics? Who could possibly teach all these fields in a 4 year program?


To address your specific concern about design &quot;Finding the truth or knowledge&quot;, &quot;Defining/solving needs and aspirations through a plan&quot;, and &quot;Executing this plan&quot;. I agree that during every project we are engaged in each one of these processes to some extent. But on the whole, designers are not primarily concerned with creating knowledge through their work: a building (architecture) doesn&#039;t create knowledge, an iPhone (industrial design) on its own doesn&#039;t create knowledge. Both of these are &quot;applications&quot; of knowledge from physics and psychology (usability). Certainly, while in the process of creating a building or an iPhone the designer learns something and creates knowledge about how to design buildings or iPhones, but this knowledge is incidental, that is, it isn&#039;t the end goal of a building or an iPhone. The same is true for execution. While a designer may be involved in actually building a building or manufacturing an iPhone, these tasks are often left up to specialists (construction for a building, and technicians in a manufacturing-assembly plant). 

What do you think? Do you agree with these distinctions?

Thanks again for your feedback,
Robert</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeff, thanks for giving your feedback. It&#8217;s great to hear what others think about my diagram/ideas. And, don&#8217;t worry about posting late; there really isn&#8217;t a deadline for posting.</p>
<p>I highly recommend you watch my <strong><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2xtWAHr6Mc" rel="nofollow">presentation on YouTube</a></strong> (click on &#8220;Watch in High Quality&#8221; just below the video so you can read the slides properly). The video is only 6 minutes so it won&#8217;t take much time to watch. I hope the video will clarify the position I&#8217;m arguing.</p>
<p>Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, but I think you are misinterpreting slide Sec114. Instead of that slide showing <em>my view</em> of design, it actually is trying to show Buchanan and Mau&#8217;s notion of design. The red arrow is meant to indicate how <em>their</em> definition has <em>enlarged</em> the discipline to encompass all applied disciplines (including engineering, genetics, politics, etc), whereas the old view of design (say, from 50 years ago), saw design as one applied discipline among many. I was trying to show that this enlargening of design is a <strong>major</strong> shift in how academic and practical disciplines have traditionally been categorized. My view is that this enlargening of design is far too ambitious and arrogant. To argue that designers can &#8220;design&#8221; a political system, economy or animal gene, is simply insulting to the disciplines in which this is clearly their domain of expertise and knowledge: political science, economics and genetics. </p>
<p>For an explicit comparison between my view of design vs Buchanan/Mau see <strong>slide Sec120</strong> in the same <strong><a href="http://designtheory.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/robertandruchow_pechakucha_sep11-2008.pdf" rel="nofollow">PDF</a></strong>. My view is the &#8220;narrow definition&#8221; and Buchanan/Mau is the &#8220;broad definition&#8221;. I believe the narrow definition is much more realistic and recognizes that design can&#8217;t do everything. We are not experts in political science nor economics, so how could we possibly argue that our discipline includes these as sub-disciplines.</p>
<p>From what gather in your comment, you believe that even Buchanan and Mau&#8217;s definition of design (which you thought was mine) is too finite or limiting. If this is the case, I have two questions for you that might illustrate my concern with such a broad definition of design:</p>
<p>	If your definition of design is even broader than Buchanan and Mau&#8217;s definition, doesn&#8217;t this necessarily make all disciplines a sub-discipline of design?<br />
	If this is the case, what would such a School of Design teach? Does this mean we need to teach our students political science, economics, genetics? Who could possibly teach all these fields in a 4 year program?</p>
<p>To address your specific concern about design &#8220;Finding the truth or knowledge&#8221;, &#8220;Defining/solving needs and aspirations through a plan&#8221;, and &#8220;Executing this plan&#8221;. I agree that during every project we are engaged in each one of these processes to some extent. But on the whole, designers are not primarily concerned with creating knowledge through their work: a building (architecture) doesn&#8217;t create knowledge, an iPhone (industrial design) on its own doesn&#8217;t create knowledge. Both of these are &#8220;applications&#8221; of knowledge from physics and psychology (usability). Certainly, while in the process of creating a building or an iPhone the designer learns something and creates knowledge about how to design buildings or iPhones, but this knowledge is incidental, that is, it isn&#8217;t the end goal of a building or an iPhone. The same is true for execution. While a designer may be involved in actually building a building or manufacturing an iPhone, these tasks are often left up to specialists (construction for a building, and technicians in a manufacturing-assembly plant). </p>
<p>What do you think? Do you agree with these distinctions?</p>
<p>Thanks again for your feedback,<br />
Robert</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff W</title>
		<link>http://designtheory.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/pecha-kucha-comparing-two-visions-of-design/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designtheory.wordpress.com/?p=67#comment-2</guid>
		<description>This is an old thread, I know, but I&#039;ve stumbled across it in my research of the Graduate VCD program at UofA, and feel that I must comment.  I disagree with your stance on Buchanan and Mau&#039;s definition of Design.  To be frank, i agree with them.  To put Design in the finite role of &quot;applied&quot; as you did in your diagram, you seem to imply that the larger, broader, elements of the design process do not exist.  If I were to redo your diagram (Sec114 of the pdf), design would be the entire process of: 

1) Finding the Truth and understanding
2) Defining the needs and aspirations, then planning ways in which to meet them.
3) Executing (or manage the execution of) the plan 

The entire process would fall inline with Buchanan and Mau

But, just my opinion.
-Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an old thread, I know, but I&#8217;ve stumbled across it in my research of the Graduate VCD program at UofA, and feel that I must comment.  I disagree with your stance on Buchanan and Mau&#8217;s definition of Design.  To be frank, i agree with them.  To put Design in the finite role of &#8220;applied&#8221; as you did in your diagram, you seem to imply that the larger, broader, elements of the design process do not exist.  If I were to redo your diagram (Sec114 of the pdf), design would be the entire process of: </p>
<p>1) Finding the Truth and understanding<br />
2) Defining the needs and aspirations, then planning ways in which to meet them.<br />
3) Executing (or manage the execution of) the plan </p>
<p>The entire process would fall inline with Buchanan and Mau</p>
<p>But, just my opinion.<br />
-Jeff</p>
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